Curse

Aversa · Apr 03, 2006, 07:51 AM // 07:51

I was bored today so decided to go tombing nothing unusual but noticed my energy of course refilled superfast especially when I was with a MM. This happens always of course but I never really though of it, so I made a build, and boy did it sure own the hell out of tombs.

It consists of Soul Reaping, Heal Party Spamming, and Order of the Vampire.

Basically it works best if you get a B/P Group with One MM, A Monk, and the rest B/P's. The reason? Minions dying = soul feasts, pets dying = soul feast kinda a no brainer.

The Build:

Any armor that you would like I chose tormentor gloves/boot with the scar chest and legs. A +1 Blood Facial Scar.

Taking into consideration you have all 200 attribute points:

Blood: 8 +1(face scare) + 3(sup rune) = 12

Soul: 10 +3(sup rune) = 13

Healing: 12

(Also throw on a Superior/Major Vigor and stay in the back with your low life)

With those stats in mind and a weapon of choice (I prefer the HoD sword for the energy boost with 20% longer enchants for OotV and the collector's healing ankh 12/20/20.

How to run the build, basically I would do OotV, Heal Party Twice, and then back to OotV. I would heal myself of course too so don't need extra healing and both spells of course recharge really fast. Now right at the very beginning it goes kind of slow(which puts your high initial energy to good use) but once the minions pop up and the beasts start dying your energy refills crazy fast and for a long time, even as the last monster would fall I'd be comming right back up to 52 energy.

Spells I brought:
Heal Party(Obvious)
Order of the Vampire(Elite: Obvious)
Healing Breeze(Incase Needed)
Blood Ritual(Heal Monk out)
Ress Signet(Fast, Strong Health Ress)
Rebirth(If bad situation)
Last 2 were 2 of the three, switched them around a bit:
Orison of Healing(Quick low energy cost heal, mainly after a OotV if I don't need to heal whole party)
Well of Blood(For sticky Situations)
Awaken the Blood(To bump of OotV)

A lot of the time your party won't even need Heal Party which just puts good use to OotV but when it does this build didn't let me down.

suiraCLAW · Apr 03, 2006, 09:11 AM // 09:11

A normal B/P groups have 5 rangers, 1 monk and 2 necro's, one mm and one order. I guess that you get in a group by saying that you're and order necro, right?

If you keep this in mind, the problems with your build are (my opinion):
-You're blood isn't maxed (it needs to be 16 or 18)
-you don't have OoP (= no order cyclus)
-There's a monk, you don't need a heal party spammer at all.
-One of the options is well of blood -> the mm loses a corpses -> his army will be much weaker in the long run -> less protection.
-another option: orison of healing, I prefer heal area because you have infinite energy

My suggestions:
-use succor on monk because you have unlimited energy. (and the monk hasn't)
-change attributes to: blood 12+3+1 SR:9+3 heal:9
-spam the 2 orders at the right time.
-Don't care about healing your party

Esuna · Apr 03, 2006, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by suiraCLAW

A normal B/P groups have 5 rangers, 1 monk and 2 necro's, one mm and one order. I guess that you get in a group by saying that you're and order necro, right?

If you keep this in mind, the problems with your build are (my opinion):
-You're blood isn't maxed (it needs to be 16 or 18)
-you don't have OoP (= no order cyclus)
-There's a monk, you don't need a heal party spammer at all.
-One of the options is well of blood -> the mm loses a corpses -> his army will be much weaker in the long run -> less protection.
-another option: orison of healing, I prefer heal area because you have infinite energy

My suggestions:
-use succor on monk because you have unlimited energy. (and the monk hasn't)
-change attributes to: blood 12+3+1 SR:9+3 heal:9
-spam the 2 orders at the right time.
-Don't care about healing your party

Heal party on an off-monk is a good idea because usually the monk would be healing up the spike damage and the necro can then mop up an energy surge or two. And don't say they don't spike because they do.. One hit from them is almost your entire health bar. A monk would be better off healing that then a 2s cast on a heal party spell. As you said, a necro has unlimited energy. What's he doing besides putting up orders anyway? Nothing. So the time and energy can be better spent on heal parties/blood rituals for monk support in between. Succor really isn't that great - it's almost redundant with blood ritual and it doesn't take away 1 pip of regen from you.

What I would put in there is blood renewal instead of Orison of healing, if you're only using it mainly for yourself after an order, and DEFINITELY take out awaken the blood, please. The +2 boost in blood is not going to be worth your 50% extra life sacrifice at all.

Here's the build I use on my N/Mo:

Order of the Vampire
Blood Renewal
Blood Ritual
Heal Other <- if monk gets spiked suddenly, or goes down
Heal Party
Heal Area <- help your MM out
Rebirth
[free slot]

Honestly I haven't done much farming since the nerf, as Order of Pain used to be in the place of the free slot. But now I guess you could fit a hex removal or healing breeze into the last slot - just depends on what you wish to bring. Heck, if you want, you could always bring a res sig even.

Vixy · Apr 03, 2006, 11:30 AM // 11:30

with that build your not really doing full potential of the b/p orders, to be fully effective you should max out blood, bump up heals to a decent 2ndary level, bring both orders, and heal yourself, you dont need to concentrate on healing the party, tis why theres monks lol, just keep the mm and monks supplied w/ br and cast your orders, but hey if it works why change? I dont run the b/p deal in there, my guild goes old skool it might take a bit longer but hey might as well bond w/ your team for those 2 horus lolol
~Vixy

Cherno · Apr 03, 2006, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Well you have no need at all to be usuing heal party that much, if you do you don't have good rangers.

That is pretty basic tombs build, but I no longer bring both orders since the nerf.

Definately should max out your blood. You are there as the orders necro, if you aren't providing that primarily, you aren't doing your job. You can play support monk as well, but that isn't your primary job.

I don't bring heal area as I shouldn't be that close to help out the MM anyway. Orders necros are meant to stay in the background out of danger. You should only be close enough to be able to share in experience, drops and soul reaping. Most MM builds down there are pretty self sufficient. Well of blood can be nice, but I leave the corpses to the MM.

suiraCLAW · Apr 03, 2006, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esuna

Heal party on an off-monk is a good idea because usually the monk would be healing up the spike damage and the necro can then mop up an energy surge or two. And don't say they don't spike because they do.. One hit from them is almost your entire health bar. A monk would be better off healing that then a 2s cast on a heal party spell. As you said, a necro has unlimited energy. What's he doing besides putting up orders anyway? Nothing. So the time and energy can be better spent on heal parties/blood rituals for monk support in between. Succor really isn't that great - it's almost redundant with blood ritual and it doesn't take away 1 pip of regen from you.

What I would put in there is blood renewal instead of Orison of healing, if you're only using it mainly for yourself after an order, and DEFINITELY take out awaken the blood, please. The +2 boost in blood is not going to be worth your 50% extra life sacrifice at all.

Here's the build I use on my N/Mo:

Order of the Vampire
Blood Renewal
Blood Ritual
Heal Other <- if monk gets spiked suddenly, or goes down
Heal Party
Heal Area <- help your MM out
Rebirth
[free slot]

Honestly I haven't done much farming since the nerf, as Order of Pain used to be in the place of the free slot. But now I guess you could fit a hex removal or healing breeze into the last slot - just depends on what you wish to bring. Heck, if you want, you could always bring a res sig even.

I need to agree with you over the whole line except not using OoP, in those 2 secs that there isn't an order every ranger could have used his elite -> 5 rangers * ~5 enemies they hit * 17 = 425 extra damage if you take OoP.

Now, about heal party: in my experience, those mobs never target more then 2 rangers about the same time. (pets and minions should be the targets you know). Making heal party not that usefull, but offcourse if the order doesn't have anything else to do...

Desires · Apr 03, 2006, 03:37 PM // 15:37

My casting order goes something like

oov-hp-oop-hp-oov-hp-oop-hp-oov just activate the next in the cycle while the one befores casting and just keep chaining it.

Worthington · Apr 03, 2006, 04:02 PM // 16:02

why even bother with a maj/sup Vig? An orders necro will be saccing every 5/6 seconds minimum. Get that life low and make it easy for the heals (whether your own or the monks) to bring you back to full. 20 life per sac is a lot easier to handle then 50.

ump · Apr 03, 2006, 04:07 PM // 16:07

High orders is your number one priority. With high orders, everything dies faster so there is less healing to be done. At blood 12, you add 13 damage to each arrow while at blood 16 you add 17 damage to each arrow and at blood 18 (wiht awaken the blood) you add 19 damage to each arrow. There is a difference of 4 damage per arrow and in a best case scenario, that is adding 4-6 damage * 5 rangers * 6 arrows per Barrage = 120-180 extra damage every second. You really want to run an attribute similar to 12+3+1=16 blood, 9+1/3=10/12 soul reaping, and 9 healing. As far as skills go, Order of the Vampire, Awakening of Blood, Blood Ritual, Healing Breeze (mostly for self-healing), Rebirth are all good choices. Heal Area works as a self-heal that occassionally gets minions (when not in combat). Heal Party is useful even at 9 healing to take some pressure off the monk and I prefer that to Heal Other because I don't need to target anyone and I don't break my rhythm. Succor is another good choice to give more energy to the monk. I wouldn't run two rez because it's a waste of space.

In summary, something like this is similar to what you already have and should work well.

Blood: 12+1+3=16 (maxing orders is the most important thing you offer to the group)
Soul: 9+1=10 or 9+3=12 (taking your life down means you sacrifice less and your regeneration is more powerful, but stay out of combat)
Healing: 9

1) Awaken the Blood - damage boost
2) Order of the Vampire - damage/healing boost
3) Healing Breeze - self-healing
4) Heal Area/Blood Renewal - self-healing
5) Heal Party - party-healing
6) Succor/Free slot - monk energy
7) Blood Ritual - monk energy
8) Rebirth - rez

GooD KaRmA · Apr 03, 2006, 05:38 PM // 17:38

First off I like the idea as a group heal, I would probably cast it about every 15 seconds. And whoever said an orders necro is doing nothing is hurting his party. I don't like using awaken the blood first of all because for those extra 2 damage you are doing twice the damage to yourself. I don't use Order of Pain because once I put a 20% wrapping on my staff Order of the Vampire lasted 6 seconds with me having recasted it on the 7th and with a 20 skill 20 spell I'm getting a quick cast or recharge 40% of the time anyways. Blood renewal is a huge heal not just for the arrows but the 200 at the end is a ton. I used to drop my health and hang out in the back but once I stopped using awaken the blood I realized I could stay up there and be helpfull. By that I mean You should have blood ritual on the monk at all times. I think it comes out to 14 seconds then your recast it so the monk is at +7 energy regen at all times. If that isn't enough for him he needs to stop wasting it or the rangers need to stop tanking. Also I like to sneak up and enfeeble warriors that are on the minions or any that get by.

1. Blood Renewal +6 health arrows for 10 seconds and heals for 200
2. Order of the Vampire +17 lifesteal for physical-no brainer
3. Blood Ritual +3 energy regen
4. Heal Party -this is where I think you would be effective even with 9 or so into healing
5. Healing Breeze for yourself when you need it or anytime the monk is sleeping
6. Enfeeble may save yours or somebody elses life
7. Heal Area for the MM to help out plus you can stand by a couple rangers
8. Rebirth

Evilsod · Apr 03, 2006, 05:48 PM // 17:48

My build is similar to Esunas as Order.

Order of Vamp
Order of Pain
Blood Ritual
Enfeebling Blood
Heal Area
Heal Other
Heal Party
Rebirth

Give me 1 good reason the necro shouldn't give the monk a hand with healing?

Also i dont see the point in taking Blood Renewal, almost everytime i've tried it the monk just heals you the moment you sacrifice 25% health totally defeating the object of it...

Blood: 11 + 3 + 1 (that 1 extra damage really won't make a difference, and please no quoting a load of calculations 'showing' it does)
Soul Reaping: 9 + 3 (i just use a sup soul reaping, dunno why i just felt like it...)
Healing Prayers: 10
Curses: leftovers (gives me a 10 second weaken)

Carinae · Apr 03, 2006, 08:31 PM // 20:31

I haven't seen anyone mention this yet, so I will:

Many Orders Necs run two res skills:

Rebirth
Res Sig/Vengeance

The sig/veng option is to stand someone back up quickly, where as Rebirth is more for recovery from a wipe.

And the Orders necro should be the one doing the battle resurects, unless the MM wants to do that (Vengeance)

bobrath · Apr 03, 2006, 08:57 PM // 20:57

From the MM pov - the last thing I want to do during combat is take time to rez. I'd rather be taking that same time to get a summon up (and then of course dropping death nova on them). While not as effective at doing damage as a ranger, the pure body blocking (and aggro absorbing) of summons (to me) makes the MM the second to last person you wanting spending time rezing (with the monk being the obvious first).

thelessa · Apr 03, 2006, 09:45 PM // 21:45

This is what I usually run while I am doing orders for a B/P group in Tombs. I use heal party when the monk seems to be overloaded and a quick kickup in health can mean a difference. I use both orders because there is a small lapse if I am just using OoV, but if it recharges quickly enough, when the 20/20 kicks in, I will use it several times in a row, then throw in OoP when the recharge goes back to normal.

Once even at the end of the 2nd level we lost our monk and we finished with me healing the rest of the trip through. Was not an easy trip through, but we made it to the end and got our greens.

N/MO

Order of the Vampire {E}
Order of Pain
Healing Breeze
Heal Area
Heal Party
Blood Ritual
Rez Signet
Rebirth

Blood 16 (12+3+1)
Soul Reaping 12 (9+3)
Healing Prayers 9
Protection Prayers 3

I have a 20/20 collectors blood staff, with a +5 energy head and a 20% enchantment mod on it.

Carinae · Apr 03, 2006, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobrath

From the MM pov - the last thing I want to do during combat is take time to rez. I'd rather be taking that same time to get a summon up (and then of course dropping death nova on them). While not as effective at doing damage as a ranger, the pure body blocking (and aggro absorbing) of summons (to me) makes the MM the second to last person you wanting spending time rezing (with the monk being the obvious first).

Well, you don't want the monk or rangers doing it, so that leaves MM or Orders.

I like using Veng as a MM, just a different type of minion

and I get an extra body from it.

GooD KaRmA · Apr 06, 2006, 01:37 AM // 01:37

I changed my N/R back to a N/Mo to try this out and honestly I don't know if I'll ever take a monk again. I was a healing machine pretty much casting 2 skills during battle.

Order of the Vampire for 6 seconds
Heal Party for 59 life
Heal Area
Blood Ritual
Enfeeble
Healing Breeze or other your preference
Rebirth
Really an open skill for whatever you like, I took shadow strike

16 Blood
11 Soul Reaping with a super
10 Healing
rest in curses
I was running about 380 life and order of the vampire took 63 life and I healed for 59 right after for a party heal. I had no problems with energy and that's some serious healing, the monk pretty much just stood there and looked for spikes. Then he got stuck in a wall and I took over the rest of the level just healing the pullers on the way back then pure party favor. Ended each fight with blood ritual and a couple heal areas for the MM which he greatly appreciated. I was very pleased with the build.

Yobz · Apr 06, 2006, 07:27 AM // 07:27

Don't use healing breeze it can be stripped adding extra damage.

GooD KaRmA · Apr 06, 2006, 12:26 PM // 12:26

Order of the Vampire is an enchantment as well so if they want to strip they can do so at will, but if that bothers someone that's why I said or heal other. It didn't get stripped once while I was down there, however they did catch me with OoTV once.

beorntheold · Apr 08, 2006, 12:14 AM // 00:14

my order build for tombs (note: havent read the thread so far), works beautifully

16 blood
10 soul reaping
10 healing

order of the vampire
order of pain
healing breeze
heal area (for yourself and to help the mm)
heal other (for the cases when the monks in trouble)
heal party
rebirth
blood ritual

items:
sup blood rune
major sr rune
enchantment upgrade on your staff (!)

the only tricky part about using this build is keeping an eye on the team chat and staying close to the monk so you can use BR promptly

GooD KaRmA · Apr 08, 2006, 07:48 AM // 07:48

Last time I went I didn't B R the monk once because I was healing twice as much as him, most of the time he just stood there. With decent rangers I could definitely see 6 rangers and 2 Necros, makes for a quick run. It's hard to convince public people though, they're usually to lazy to heal themselves.